This account of the interview is from a statement made by Frank on March l4th 1986, five days after the interview had taken place. It should be remembered that Frank had no way of knowing the contents of the police documents at that time - four months before they were issued as part of the official depositions on July 2nd 1986.
Ord: Right Frankie, you know what this is about.
Wilkinson: I know nothing. Hey, I hope you are writing all this down. I don't want any mistakes later on.
Ord: We'll write it down later.
Wilkinson: No, write it down now.
Ord: Don't you trust me?
Wilkinson: No, do I fuck. Write it down now or I'm going back to my cell. (Then to Ramshaw) Write it down then.
Ord: Write it down if it will make him feel better. (Ramshaw began to write. There followed a dozen or so questions regarding the assault on Armstrong. This went on until Wilkinson saw that Ramshaw had stopped writing.)
Wilkinson: He's not fucking writing.
Ord: Because you are telling lies.
Wilkinson: I'm not.
Ord: You went back and wrecked the house, pinched all the furniture.
Wilkinson: Don't talk stupid. I've told you what I did.
Ord: Well Frank, I'm sorry but that's not our evidence. Our evidence is that you burst into the house and went mad. Eddy has told us that he had to drag you off Armstrong and that you wanted to kill him and said you were going to dump his body at Kielder Forest. We've got witnesses who say the same thing
Wilkinson: Don't tell me fucking lies.
Ord: And that's what bothers me Frank, the bit about Kielder forest.
Wilkinson: What do you mean?
Ord: Kielder forest.
Wilkinson: What about it?
Ord: That's where Alan Raffle was found.
Wilkinson: I know that. Hey, I hope you are not suggesting anything.
Ord: Frank, I want to ask you a question. Did you kill Alan Raffle?
Wilkinson: Who? Me? Don't be so fucking stupid. Alan Raffle was my friend. Jesus Christ, you must be mad even thinking about it. We were partners, we made money together for fuck's sake. I used to go round for cups of tea regularly. He used to come to our house for tea. We were mates.
Ord: Well I think you did.
Wilkinson: Fuck this. You are trying it on. I've got nothing to say until my legal rep is present.
Ord: But you told the custody officer that you didn't want one. (Frank had in fact refused to talk to the custody officer.)
Wilkinson: I do now. (Frank noticed that Ramshaw was making no pretence of writing anything down.) He's not writing.
Ord: Well, you're not saying anything I want to hear.
Wilkinson: So what? You're supposed to write down what I say.
Ord: We'll write it down later.
Wilkinson: Yeah, so you can suit yourself what you write.
Ord: We don't do things like that normally.
Wilkinson: But you do all the same.
Ord: Look Frank, Eddie has told us that you know more than you are admitting. So why don't you have your say?
Wilkinson: I'm having it pal.
Ord: But you aren't admitting anything.
Wilkinson: Because I've got nothing to admit. I don't know why you are accusing me.
Ord: Well Frank, the reason I am accusing you is because Eddie says he drove you up to Kielder and that you got out with Alan Raffle and killed him. He said he had nothing to do with it, that you did it. (Interestingly, Eddie did not begin to tell this story about Kielder until l.00pm the next day, Monday March 10th - see interviews 7, 8, and 9 - yet Ord has the nucleus of the story already.)
Wilkinson: You are fucking lying.
Ord: I am not.
Wilkinson: You are. I know you are because what you are saying is not true. Eddie can't have said that because it just didn't happen. He has no reason for saying it, therefore you are lying.
Ord: Well, that's what he says.
Wilkinson: I don't believe you.
Ord: Okay Frank, let me put it this way. We have got a murder weapon with your prints all over it. You are going to jail, you better face that. So why not tell us about it? You see Eddie is putting it all down to you, he thinks it puts him out of the frame by putting you in. So why don't you do the same thing as him and tell us about it?
Wilkinson: Look pal, get it into your head that I know nothing so how can I tell you about something I know nothing about? Alan Raffle was my friend. I don't go around doing things like that to my enemies, never mind my friends.
Ord: Well, Frank, I've got to admit that it is totally out of character for you. I must admit that. It might have been a case of a fight that went wrong, got out of hand.
Wilkinson: Don't be stupid. Alan wasn't a fighter.
Ord: No. Well, to be honest, I don't think you killed him but your mate Eddie is a fucking nut case, a head-the-ball, and I think he did it. He is trying to put you in to get himself out. But at the same time I think you know more than you are telling us.
Wilkinson: Look, if I knew anything, don't you think I would tell you? It's not very nice to be accused of killing a friend.
Ord: So tell us what you know.
Wilkinson: I know nothing about it. I didn't even know he was dead until I saw it on the telly and in the papers.
Ord: We will see about that.
Wilkinson: Oh, I see, plant a bit of evidence, eh?
Ord: No such thing. It's easier than that. A word here, a word there. But we won't do anything like that if you tell us what you know.
Wilkinson: Why don't you piss off?
Ord: Look Frank, you are being silly. We can prove you were out that night. We've got witnesses that you left at about 1.30am and came home at about 5.30am.
Wilkinson: What witnesses?
Ord: Mrs Ornsby and Billy. She's not very happy with you Frank, you upset her. You know that we have arrested Billy as well?
Wilkinson: What the fuck for?
Ord: He will be charged with murder as well.
Wilkinson: You're fucking crazy. You are barmy.
Ord: He has admitted it as well. He has also admitted stealing caravans from Kielder. You and him stole them and took them to Raffle's yard and sold them to either Raffle or people Raffle brought in.
Wilkinson: Don't talk wet. Willie hasn't stolen any bloody thing. He's not a thief.
Ord: He's got a record for TWOC.
Wilkinson: He got in with a bad crowd, that's all. He's a good lad.
Ord: He thinks a lot of you.
Wilkinson: The whole family do.
Ord: You know that we have arrested everybody, don't you? The kids, Mrs Ornsby, they are all at different police stations.
Wilkinson: What for?
Ord: The minute you start talking they can all go home of course.
Wilkinson: Blackmail, eh?
Ord: Call it what you like.
Wilkinson: Well you are wasting your time. As far as I am concerned you can go and fuck a spider. I'm not going to make up stories just to satisfy you pal.
Ord: Don't worry, you'll talk. I'm absolutely certain you will talk sooner or later in the next 3 or 4 days. I'll be back in a minute.
At this point Ord left Wilkinson with Ramshaw in the interview room. He offered Wilkinson a cigarette, which he accepted.